[I made a really big error in this post, in that I misread the specs page for the Clarian panels and thought the $799 price applied to the 1,000W model, which it clearly doesn't. I will leave this post and the comments pointing out my error intact.]
If you follow the energy and climate news as obsessively as I suspect at least some of you do, you’ve no doubt seen the recent articles about the coming plug-and-play, home handyperson level solar PV panel that’s coming out soon from Clarian Technologies. A typical example is the piece, Yale Environment 360: Low-Cost Solar Array Developed for Residential Installation:
A Seattle-based company says that it has developed an inexpensive do-it-yourself solar power technology that will enable homeowners to install solar panels on their roofs and then connect them to their power supply by simply plugging a cord into a regular electrical outlet. The company, Clarian Power, is touting its Sunfish system – with prices beginning at $799 – as a major advance in reducing
the high cost of installing home solar power systems, which typically start at $10,000. Clarian says its Sunfish system does not require a dedicated control panel and has built-in circuit protection, and thus does not require an electrician for installation. Users would mount up to five solar panels anywhere on the house, and plug the device into any outlet. The system is Wi-Fi enabled, enabling users to monitor the performance with online software such as the Google PowerMeter. The largest module will be able to generate 150 kilowatt hours per month, company officials say, so it would take five to six modules to produce the roughly 900 kilowatts used by an average American home. Clarian officials say their goal is not to enable homeowners to generate excess electrical capacity, but rather to reduce their monthly energy use and lower their utility bills.
OK, this sounds like a cool idea, and a good way to get a lot of interested consumers over the “hassle hump” of home (or small business) solar PV. No contractors and their bids to deal with, no major work on your house to install it, etc. Of course, we’re talking about a much smaller unit that the typical home PV installation (about 4kW), but as long as the price/kWh generated is reasonable, that’s not too big a deal. (Pop quiz: How many homes in your neighborhood have PV panels today? How much better for everyone would it be if even a third or half of them had a small PV setup turning sunlight into a few hundred Watts? And how much better yet would it be if that became the norm for homes in most parts of the US, Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc.?)
Oh yeah — cost per unit of energy produced. A quick look at the Clarian web site finds this page with some specs on the panels involved. Said page says:
- There will be two sizes of module, 200W and 1,000W.
- Expected prices are $599 to $799. (I’m assuming these are the prices for the 200W and 1,000W models, respectively; the web site is a bit vague. See link below.)
- The 200W unit produces 30kWh of energy per month, while the larger model is good for 150kWh/month.
- The units will have a “payback in 3-4 years or less”.
The big model produces five times the output of the smaller one and costs only one third more? That actually makes a certain amount of sense, when you think about the fact that you’re buying a lot more than just a bare solar panel. The stuff to invert the current (turn DC into what you want, which is AC), and tie it in to you house system, frame/mounting hardware, etc. is likely very similar, if not identical, between the units, and that fixed cost portion greatly reduces the cost ratio from 5:1 to something much lower.
The claimed outputs are reasonable, and represent 5 hours of full capacity generation/day on average. Some days you’ll do much better, some days much worse, but 5 hours seems reasonable.
The payback period is, however, a whole different sphere of bee stuff.
If you pay 12 cents/kWh for your utility electricity, then ignoring the lost opportunity or interest costs of the initial investment, and assuming you really do install it yourself, then 30kWh/month is $3.60/month in avoided electricity costs, or $43.20/year. At a purchase price of $599, that’s a payback period of 13.8 years, quite a bit more than the claimed “3-4 years or less”.
For the 1,000W model, that works out to $18/month, $216/year, and 3.7 years to pay back a $799 initial investment. So the 1,000W model clearly meets their claimed payback.
I don’t know what the tax rebate situation is for these panels, but if you assume a one-third kickback, then your payback periods shrink to about 9.1 years for the 200W model, and a scant 2.4 years for the 1,000W unit.
What’s that you say? You electricity costs more or less than 12 cents/kWh? You can then rerun the numbers, or simply multiply the payback periods I calculated by (12/(your electricity cost in cents/kWh)). I used 12 cents/kWh because it’s what I pay and it’s pretty close to the US national residential average.
And, as some of the reports have been quick to point out, you can take the panel with you when you move, making it a viable option for those expecting to change addresses in just a few years.
Bottom line: This seems to be a very interesting product aimed at nearly all homeowners. There are some obvious questions, of course. Will the pricing and availability be what the company is currently talking about? Will the quality and performance of the units be good enough? Will there be any zoning or other legal issues that crop up over people wiring these things into their home?[1][2]
So far, it sounds like something to keep an eye on.
[1] Some descriptions I’ve seen say installing one of these is about the same as replacing an electrical outlet. That puts it squarely in the home handyperson category and out of the realm of pure plug and play, which is something of a barrier to entry, but not much. I’d certainly be comfortable installing one of these in my own home, but I can think of some neighbors that I wouldn’t want to see try it.
[2] This is not to disparage Clarian, but a not-yet-available product from any company should be viewed with at least a pinch of caution.
One small correction:
Per the Clarian spec. the price range of $599 – $799 applies to the 200W system ($799′s with the alloy wheels probably).
But there’s no way on God’s green earth that a genuine 1kW PV array can come in at
Comment got clipped (that’s the last time I use greater-than or less-than signs):
. . . . no way on God’s green earth that a genuine 1kW PV array can come in at less than $1 per Watt.
Actually spec. says $2999 – $3999 for the big brother 1kW array. Much more believable.
Bad news: if you look at their website, it says $599 to $799 is the MSRP for the “200w sunfish unit”. The “1 kw sunfish system” has a MSRP of $2995-$3995. So cost (and payback time) are four times that indicated in your calculation. Sigh.
http://www.clariantechnologies.com/main/page_plugin_solar_power.html
looking at the linked page a bit more, I’d guess they are projecting $599-799 for 200W set, and up to 5 sets / system. Lots of details to work out, I’d bet more news in 6 mos. I think some of their claims are best ignored as there is no product yet. Yes the 5 hours is reasonable.
[slaps self in forehead]
Man, that was an embarrassing mistake. Thanks to all for catching it. I’ll add a notation to the top of the post about the error, but leave the rest of the post intact as a lesson to everyone to read such stuff carefully.
This also puts the claims of a “3-4 year” payback into considerable question, to put it mildly. I will be very interested to see how this changes between now and the day I can put one in my cart at Lowe’s.
Even with the cost corrections (and understanding this is still “vaporware”) all I can say is COWABUNGA!
It’s like your very own “net-metering” legislation…I can see a version of this taking off in developing countries (or anywhere the local utility is fighting PV tooth and nail).
I’m assuming the $800 for 200W, and $4,000 for 1kw includes the solar panels…
If they don’t include the panels for that price then it is no longer a big deal.
Reading about the Clarion’s Sunfish gives me great hope for a renewable electricity source, that the average homeowner can afford. I will be watching this closely. It’s not just about the pay back, it’s about not using fossil fuels, getting off coal and oil. It’s a cost we will have to pay, now or later. If we do nothing, as we have done for the last 40 years, we will REALLY pay. We are seeing the results of doing nothing now!
Chris:
I agree that it shouldn’t be about nothing but the payback, but the stark truth is that the payback calculation is the only thing that will drive mass adoption of this technology and these products.
You can find lots of people who employ green practices for reasons beyond the money saved, including most people who read this site, I’d guess. But to make even these small solar PV panels common sights on American homes will take nothing less than brute force economics. Once the neighborhood guys standing around the gas grill (with the obligatory beer in one hand) start talking about these things, and one guy says, “I put two of them on our house, and I’m saving money,” then at least some of the others will jump on the bandwagon. Until the mainstreamers perceive that there’s not just a reasonable chance of saving money by using these panels, but that it’s virtually certain, and that the hassle factor doesn’t outweigh that savings, then they’ll remain a niche of a niche item.
This system can overload the circuit wiring. Consider a 15amp circuit with a single device that is drawing almost 15amps. Then add solar and add the same amount more current draw at the load. The portion of the circuit between the solar and the load can now draw more than 15amps and not trip the circuit breaker because the circuit breaker will see only 15amps net current draw. It is impossible for their monitoring device to know how much total current is drawn unless it is at the source, as in the circuit breaker position, or an outlet box immediately after the circuit breaker, which is not possible to guarantee. The National Electrical Code already has requirements for the placement of the circuit breakers connecting solar to the electrical panel to prevent just this condition there. It seems unlikely that UL would approve a device that creates such an unsafe condition.”
It is a nice idea otherwise. If they made the monitor as a circuit breaker it would work, but then they’re relying on a smart device to tell the monitor/breaker how much current the solar is producing so that the net draw off the circuit is within limits. Now we are relying on a LOT of transistors to talk to each other to keep the house from burning down. Offhand, I’m not aware of any protective systems in a house that are remotely that complex–they could all have been built 50 years ago and are very reliable. I’d be very surprised to see it get approval without some low-tech solution.
Trying to understand George’s objection:
Standard arrangement with (or without) Solar generator…. 15amp circuit breaker…15 amp load…15 amp load–>circuit breaks
Case 1: Circuit breaker….15Amp Load…Solar Generator….15Ampload#2
Case 2: Circuit breaker…15Amp Load….15Amp load#2…solar generator
Case 3: Circuit breaker…solar generator…15amp load…15 amp load
Your objection/unsafe condition appears in case 3? between the two 15 amp loads?
But Case 1 and case 2 are okay…?
I would think the safe way to handle this would be to use a “new” circuit, and then with the breaker in and the breaker on the panel, it should be safe. I calculate with 15 amp breaker and 120 volts, that would cover 1800 watts, so with a 1000 (or 1 KW) system, that should protect the whole addition to the system. In fact, I see no reason why two of the 1KW system could not be installed, each with a separate set of new breakers.
I am always excited to see simplifications such as this. Even if it requires an electrician, which would be a good idea anyway, this makes the whole process a lot simpler. And simple will get installations of this type of application.
Chuck gross… “I would think the safe way to handle this would be to use a “new” circuit”
That defeats the entire point of the product to be simple and easy to install.
As far as Gorge and his idea that the system could overload I think these people must have considered that although I don’t know how they have supposedly conquered this problem, I’m going to ask them.
As far as the scenario of having a 15 amp load on a 15 amp circuit that would be a mistake. You should never load a 15 ampcircuit breaker to more than 80% of it’s capacity which is 12 amps.
This unit will not overload the circuit because it has a circuit monitor.
this info is from an interview.
Are there any concerns about wiring capacity or issues that customers should be aware of?
These will be UL-certified devices, the same certification required for any device you plug into your home. It cannot generate power without the power grid in place, without that it won’t send power back up the line, same if you unplug it — you’re not going to get electrocuted, or anything like that.
What makes our technology different from others is that we have built-in circuit protection. The circuit monitor checks that circuit to make sure we’re not overloading that wiring. And we’re limiting the power modules, at least initially, to 1,000 watts, which is well within the range of the wiring in your home.