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	<title>Comments for The Cost of Energy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grinzo.com/energy/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy</link>
	<description>News, statistics, commentary and activism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 22:36:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Driving the future by Oelsen</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/05/18/driving-the-future/#comment-97387</link>
		<dc:creator>Oelsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 22:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4402#comment-97387</guid>
		<description>There is still the possibility of pumping some additional electrons during WE e.g. into your car by solar installation. 

But another thing that gets attention around here in Europe, I had learned this weekend, are 1 liter per 100 km delivery cars. Those have at most 40PS and are very well suited for the city. Why do new fancy cars need a parking assistance when the same producer could built cars that last 20 years and use only a liter and cost only 10k€? The Japanese show it: The first doing this will win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is still the possibility of pumping some additional electrons during WE e.g. into your car by solar installation. </p>
<p>But another thing that gets attention around here in Europe, I had learned this weekend, are 1 liter per 100 km delivery cars. Those have at most 40PS and are very well suited for the city. Why do new fancy cars need a parking assistance when the same producer could built cars that last 20 years and use only a liter and cost only 10k€? The Japanese show it: The first doing this will win.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Driving the future by Dan Olner</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/05/18/driving-the-future/#comment-97385</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Olner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 16:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4402#comment-97385</guid>
		<description>So, looking at &lt;a href=&quot;https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/energy/energy_archive/energy_flow_2010/LLNLUSEnergy2010.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;US energy flow&lt;/a&gt;, and talking about a slow shift to EV over time, what are the implications? There&#039;s a tricky conversion there: 25.65 quads of petrol going into transport, but internal combustion isn&#039;t very efficient. EVs are more efficient - but current electric production is not: 39.49 quad input = 12.71 output.

At any rate, have you any notion how much electricity demand would need to increase in time to meet your ideal EV transition? (Noting also how much is currently generated by coal?)

If you have some helpful, consistent way to think these things through, it&#039;d be great to hear it! Whenever I try and think about it, the goalposts seem to shift in my head. I guess the best we can do is to pick a few scenarios and think them through in detail. But anyway: I worry that there is simply no way the kind of electricity capacity can be built - certainly not green electricity. Hopefully, I&#039;m wrong...

The other interesting aspect to this: while we all try and &#039;decouple&#039; transport demand growth from economic growth, shifting transport to electricity will couple it to demand from other residential/commercial/industrial sectors. Their prices will change accordingly. Currently, transport&#039;s reliance on the black stuff keeps those markets quite separate. Another damn fiddly elasticity problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, looking at <a href="https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/energy/energy_archive/energy_flow_2010/LLNLUSEnergy2010.png" rel="nofollow">US energy flow</a>, and talking about a slow shift to EV over time, what are the implications? There&#8217;s a tricky conversion there: 25.65 quads of petrol going into transport, but internal combustion isn&#8217;t very efficient. EVs are more efficient &#8211; but current electric production is not: 39.49 quad input = 12.71 output.</p>
<p>At any rate, have you any notion how much electricity demand would need to increase in time to meet your ideal EV transition? (Noting also how much is currently generated by coal?)</p>
<p>If you have some helpful, consistent way to think these things through, it&#8217;d be great to hear it! Whenever I try and think about it, the goalposts seem to shift in my head. I guess the best we can do is to pick a few scenarios and think them through in detail. But anyway: I worry that there is simply no way the kind of electricity capacity can be built &#8211; certainly not green electricity. Hopefully, I&#8217;m wrong&#8230;</p>
<p>The other interesting aspect to this: while we all try and &#8216;decouple&#8217; transport demand growth from economic growth, shifting transport to electricity will couple it to demand from other residential/commercial/industrial sectors. Their prices will change accordingly. Currently, transport&#8217;s reliance on the black stuff keeps those markets quite separate. Another damn fiddly elasticity problem.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Democracy in the Age of Science by Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/05/09/democracy-in-the-age-of-science/#comment-97369</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 17:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4390#comment-97369</guid>
		<description>Greg: 

Yikes!  Thanks for catching that.  

The video is &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;https://umconnect.umn.edu/p35957640/?launcher=false&amp;fcsContent=true&amp;pbMode=normal&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and I&#039;ll add a link to the post itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: </p>
<p>Yikes!  Thanks for catching that.  </p>
<p>The video is <a target="_blank" href="https://umconnect.umn.edu/p35957640/?launcher=false&#038;fcsContent=true&#038;pbMode=normal" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and I&#8217;ll add a link to the post itself.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Democracy in the Age of Science by Greg Wellman</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/05/09/democracy-in-the-age-of-science/#comment-97368</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Wellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 17:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4390#comment-97368</guid>
		<description>Lou, are you missing a link to the video itself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou, are you missing a link to the video itself?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fill in the blank time by BlackSun</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/05/05/fill-in-the-blank-time/#comment-97365</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackSun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 20:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4378#comment-97365</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going with &quot;lack of systems thinking.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going with &#8220;lack of systems thinking.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Your WTF break of the day by Daniel Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/04/30/your-wtf-break-of-the-day/#comment-97364</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 01:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4365#comment-97364</guid>
		<description>One of the most amazing things - and totally insane -  I&#039;ve seen in my life.
Thanks for sharing, Lou.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most amazing things &#8211; and totally insane &#8211;  I&#8217;ve seen in my life.<br />
Thanks for sharing, Lou.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Not talking about the true costs by adelady</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/04/25/not-talking-about-the-true-costs/#comment-97346</link>
		<dc:creator>adelady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4337#comment-97346</guid>
		<description>Talking about fuelling the home and heating.  We moved to a smaller home and promptly put up solar panels (the FIT was about to reduce).  You&#039;d think we&#039;d be thrilled to bits.  

Well, not exactly.  Previously we&#039;d had solar hot water for near enough to 25 years.  We&#039;re not used to paying for heating water _at all_, because we had the backup heating turned off for most of the year.  So now we&#039;ve got a much smaller house, with solar power, but we&#039;re still paying for more power than we expected.  And all because we&#039;re now paying for something we&#039;re used to having for free - didn&#039;t work that out too well, did we.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking about fuelling the home and heating.  We moved to a smaller home and promptly put up solar panels (the FIT was about to reduce).  You&#8217;d think we&#8217;d be thrilled to bits.  </p>
<p>Well, not exactly.  Previously we&#8217;d had solar hot water for near enough to 25 years.  We&#8217;re not used to paying for heating water _at all_, because we had the backup heating turned off for most of the year.  So now we&#8217;ve got a much smaller house, with solar power, but we&#8217;re still paying for more power than we expected.  And all because we&#8217;re now paying for something we&#8217;re used to having for free &#8211; didn&#8217;t work that out too well, did we.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Doc alert: People and the Planet by Dan Olner</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/04/26/doc-alert-people-and-the-planet/#comment-97341</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Olner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4343#comment-97341</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/25/governments-catastrophic-climate-change-iea&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Another Grauniad story&lt;/a&gt; from yesterday I missed. The IEA saying: 

&quot;Governments are falling badly behind on low-carbon energy, putting carbon reduction targets out of reach and pushing the world to the brink of catastrophic climate change, the world&#039;s leading independent energy authority will warn on Wednesday.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/25/governments-catastrophic-climate-change-iea" rel="nofollow">Another Grauniad story</a> from yesterday I missed. The IEA saying: </p>
<p>&#8220;Governments are falling badly behind on low-carbon energy, putting carbon reduction targets out of reach and pushing the world to the brink of catastrophic climate change, the world&#8217;s leading independent energy authority will warn on Wednesday.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Not talking about the true costs by Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/04/25/not-talking-about-the-true-costs/#comment-97339</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4337#comment-97339</guid>
		<description>Sasparilla:

I didn&#039;t see that IEA thing.  Ouch.  I&#039;ll look it up, though.

Paul:

I don&#039;t know what to think about the leadership issue.  Right now, the public sentiment is so mean in the US that I&#039;m not at all optimistic it would help.  We&#039;ve replaced normal civil society with a cross between capitalism and gladiator games, with the unstated motto, &quot;I&#039;ve got mine, screw everyone else&quot;, where &quot;everyone else&quot; often includes someone&#039;s own kids and grand kids.  If that&#039;s a fundamental characteristic of American society -- we can take cooperative actions in our own best interest only during good (or at least not really bad) economic times -- we&#039;re in even more trouble than I thought.  Peak oil + climate change will result in more than a little economic disruption, implying we&#039;ll spend endlessly on adaptation and short-term fixes that we have to address, with even less money and... what?  compassion?  generosity?  humanity? left over for mitigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sasparilla:</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see that IEA thing.  Ouch.  I&#8217;ll look it up, though.</p>
<p>Paul:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what to think about the leadership issue.  Right now, the public sentiment is so mean in the US that I&#8217;m not at all optimistic it would help.  We&#8217;ve replaced normal civil society with a cross between capitalism and gladiator games, with the unstated motto, &#8220;I&#8217;ve got mine, screw everyone else&#8221;, where &#8220;everyone else&#8221; often includes someone&#8217;s own kids and grand kids.  If that&#8217;s a fundamental characteristic of American society &#8212; we can take cooperative actions in our own best interest only during good (or at least not really bad) economic times &#8212; we&#8217;re in even more trouble than I thought.  Peak oil + climate change will result in more than a little economic disruption, implying we&#8217;ll spend endlessly on adaptation and short-term fixes that we have to address, with even less money and&#8230; what?  compassion?  generosity?  humanity? left over for mitigation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Not talking about the true costs by Paul magnus</title>
		<link>http://www.grinzo.com/energy/2012/04/25/not-talking-about-the-true-costs/#comment-97338</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul magnus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 04:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grinzo.com/energy/?p=4337#comment-97338</guid>
		<description>Leadership is whats missing. There just isn&#039;t enough ques around on the topic from people who the public look to for peer credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leadership is whats missing. There just isn&#8217;t enough ques around on the topic from people who the public look to for peer credibility.</p>
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